Strap into your saddles, because we’re about to find some Prince/ss Charmings on some horses. In this week’s episode, join Haley and Lauren as they dig through some personal ads that put the “fairy” in fairy tale. Follow us through the tales of a heartbroken lesbian from Georgia, Prince Charming sought in Denver, and butch Lancelot? All that and more in Episode 13 of Q4Q: Queer Personal Ads!
Listen to us on Spotify, Stitcher, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your tunes!
Interested in being on the show? Contact us at Q4QPodcast@gmail.com or find us on Twitter @Queerpersonals and Instagram @Queerpersonalspodcast.
Banjo strummed by Lauren Baca. Cover art by Bekah Rich.
Gay Blade (D.C), November 11, 1988. DigDC
Lesbian Tide Volume 1 Number 2, September - October 1979. Houston LGBT History.org.
Southern Voice, April 21 and 27, 1994. Digital Library of Georgia.
Out Front, Volume V Number 6, June 13, 1980. Colorado Historic Newspapers Collection.
Focus Point, November 17, 1994. Minnesota Digital Library.
OutWeek, August 28, 1989. OutWeek Internet Archive.
Haley [00:00:14] Hello and welcome to Q4Q: the Queer Personal Ads podcast, I will be your host, Haley. I am an archivist in Washington, DC, and I want to start off by saying the show is not for children. What does that mean? Well, don't let your child listen to it. If they don't want to hear swear words, sexual fantasies, kinks and or awful stuff that may come out of our mouths and like some stuff, isn't awful. It's just not for children, you know? And also, I just wanted to ask everyone to subscribe, share and rate the podcast for your listening to it. I super appreciate you getting me out into the other queer areas. So with me today is my friend, Lauren and housemate as well. Would you like to introduce yourself?
Lauren [00:00:53] God, I hate it. But you know what? I think I can do it for you, Haley. What's up? I'm Lauren. I'm a I'm a she, her Snarkivist, which is something I made up this morning and I still don't know what it means. Um, I don't really social media that much. But as I wrote to myself earlier, you can get me on the Twitter at OkayBarca. I mostly just like things and don't post that much, but I think a lot about doing a lot of things. I don't know, like I think about world building and making webcomics a lot. So that's where I would put it. So follow me there and you might see something. Yeah, do you know what world building is? Like, J.R.R. Tolkien was making the maps and stuff and like building the world. Yeah, yeah. What else did I write down? I'm a budding piano evangelist and average Starcraft watcher and Kroger brand sommelier. Incredible.
Haley [00:02:01] Honestly, your wine is way better than Kroger I feel.
Lauren [00:02:04] No, I feel like my sommelier is like, Oh, and, you know, because I'm not a sommelier.
Haley [00:02:10] Me, either. I just enjoy drinking. Yeah. So anyway, Lauren is here to help me choose between all of the eligible baches. So can you guess what today's theme is?
Lauren [00:02:22] I can guess, since it has been told to me. It is fairy tales.
Haley [00:02:25] It is fairy tales. So strap into your sandals because we're about to find some prince/princess charmings on horses.
Lauren [00:02:36] We are going to find some Princ Charming, Prince Charming,
Haley [00:02:44] Princ, or twink charming.
Lauren [00:02:45] Twink charming. Oh, mamma mia!
Haley [00:02:48] First thing's first. Lauren, have you ever written or replied to a personal ad.?
Lauren [00:02:54] OK, so I was going to say no, but I listened to the first five minutes of the most recent episode. And our guest said that they made a Bumble and that counted in their brain. So I was like, Oh, OK, I think I made a coffee meets bagel page once. I did not get any responses, but that was that is like, you know, writing about yourself and trying to describe yourself and seeking out someone else. So that does make sense.
Haley [00:03:19] Do you remember anything that like you put on there?
Lauren [00:03:25] I'm kind of cringing in hindsight. So, you know, like how on like DVD boxes they'll be like best film ever New York Times.
Haley [00:03:34] Really? How long ago was that?
Lauren [00:03:37] Let me put it this way. Too recent in history. OK. A lifetime ago and yet and yet not in numbers. Unfortunate? No, just unfortunate.
Haley [00:03:56] Yeah, it happens. Do you want to try your hand at like, what would you do put in your personal ad?
Lauren [00:04:02] I feel like I would just like list my interests and l feel like I know what I wouldn't do. Having read the prompts today where people are like, You got to be this, this and this and this, and I don't like being put in this box as the reader. Yeah, like this feels weird. So I would not do that to anyone. I just feel like, you know, I like music. I play the banjo. Someone was like muscular. If you have pecs, that's an A-plus for me. It's like, if you like Starcraft, that's an A-plus. I like that. Yeah, a little foreshadowing for the audience. So this is a hook them in and so they stay for the rest of the episode now that they know what's coming. Yeah, but only a little bit like that.
Lauren [00:04:44] We might talk about Dune later on.
Haley [00:04:46] That hit new movie Dune.
Lauren [00:04:46] Do you know what? Having seen these these ads I will add that I do like touching, since someone specified that they like touching.
Haley [00:04:56] I think that is a very important to a lot of people.
Lauren [00:05:00] I'm not like super physical.
Haley [00:05:02] So disclaimer The views expressed in these personal ads are not my own or Lauren's. Some of the ads are from areas with very different ideas about race bodies and what it means to be part of the LGBTQ community. While I do not take these things lightly and I'll do my best to address them as I see them, I am also here to make fun of the thirsty, pining and sometimes ridiculous queer, lonely hearts sent out into the world.
Lauren [00:05:27] First Ad: Unlike most gay men, I don't believe in a prince or a knight who will appear, and together we will live in eternal bliss. Nor do I feel that it takes another person to make me a complete individual. Our relationship is the union of two complete individuals who share certain common bonds, believe in commitment and share both the good times and hardships of life together. I'm seeking to date other GWM in the hope of finding that particular someone who can grow with me in all aspects of life. I am a tall, slender Masc professional GWM, 35, who enjoys conversation, politics, travel, dining out movies, working out in the gym and believes that the sexual experience is fun filled with intense romance, affection and mutual desire to fulfill each other's needs. I am seeking a Prof. GWM twenty seven to 42 who is mature, financially stable and in shape. If he has Pecs, that is a plus.
Haley [00:06:37] It's so
Lauren [00:06:37] long, so long and so
Haley [00:06:40] It's very illustrative.
Lauren [00:06:41] True, it is working very hard
Lauren [00:06:50] When I was going through it, it was just like I was like in the desert of like a list. Like, there is no end in sight. And just when you think you got to the final item with that and you realize that that and has a list within it.
Haley [00:07:03] Yeah, that's oh my God. And you only have to pay $12 per week for this.
Lauren [00:07:10] It wasn't...It's not what?
Haley [00:07:13] Yeah, it's not based on words, which a lot of ads are. So it's like $12 per week and then $10 per week for three or more issues. So like, I feel like you spend like a forty two dollars like fee. He got the blade box, so that's two dollars per issue if you pick up or four dollars if you wanted them delivered.
Lauren [00:07:37] So what is a blade box?
Haley [00:07:39] So this is from-- Oh, I forgot to say this is from the DC Gay Blade or it's the Washington Blade. November 11th, 1988. So it was solely named the Blade at this time. So a blade box is something like instead of listing your full address to receive your personal ads or you're like replies, it would just go to like, it's kind of like a P.O. box. And so you can come pick it up and like or you can have it shipped first class mail to your home, and that's what's the $4 fee. And it would have to be first class because I think at this point it could be intercepted by the Post Office and read and then you could be outed.
Lauren [00:08:25] Oh, I've just been thinking about gay blade being related to bay blades. That's the thing that's really not.
Haley [00:08:33] But I put this in fairy tale, even though it's more like an Anti- fairy Tale, because he's like, I'm not expecting some prince with a white horse into the sunset. I think it still works.
Lauren [00:08:45] If this is the only one, I think, where it starts out saying what he is not. Which I thought was a very interesting way to cause these, these these ads are really, really intersting because it's like, what other situations do you like, write about? How do you describe yourself? What are your choices in doing that?
Haley [00:09:04] Right
Lauren [00:09:05] Which is kind of a person I would not want to be personally. I don't know that. So I'm taking it antagonistic in a way.
Haley [00:09:12] If he is seeing people around him who are like, we're going to live in eternal bliss and like, it takes another person to like, make me complete and he's like, Nah, nah. With that, that's a lot. That's a lot too much.
Lauren [00:09:24] And we, I should say it later on, we will see someone who is very the opposite of that person. Very true. And what a hero she is.
Haley [00:09:36] We all have our preferences. And you know what? It's better to get it out. The one thing that really stuck out to me as well was the fact that he is like, I'm not looking for any man to be perfect. And then he like lists of things, which I feel like a lot of people end up doing. And that's because, yeah, it's like, I know that you're not like looking for someone to be perfect. Maybe like, you're like, I'm open to it, but also like--
Lauren [00:09:59] I've been in a situation. I think more like those like dating apps are like, Oh, what do you want another person? And like for me, I'm always like, I, I've never thought about this. I just think if I connect with someone, I connect with someone. But then when I'm like, OK, well, I have to fill this out, and then I just start the list. And like, I was never going to be big, but then all of a sudden it just goes and goes and goes and goes and like, you could be any one of these. But that's not how it comes off. It comes off as like you need to be all of these, right?
Haley [00:10:25] You know, that's yeah. These are things that like would be cool or whatever, but like. And also, you only have so much space in the paper, which is like a little bit difficult, like this guy.
Lauren [00:10:36] Apparently, it was five bucks to get a fucking paragraph. Yeah, I mean, just the way the guy is, like so picky. Like, I maybe they're not a man, but maybe they're maybe they're just masc.
Haley [00:10:48] But no, I mean, it's gay white man.
Lauren [00:10:52] Oh, true. Yeah, I don't know. I just I just seemed like someone that I would not like personally, just cause they're like, I'm not this kind of person. I don't like those kinds of people. So I'm not. I'm not that this is who I am. This is who you have to be. And it's a lot of like pointing fingers and like putting labels on stuff. I don't know. It's a lot.
Haley [00:11:15] I feel like that happens with all the other ones.
Lauren [00:11:17] No, there was a point where I was going through them and I was like, I don't know. The the lesbian ones seem very, very different from the gay ones like the lesbian ones will like. They'll be like, they'll do like a little story that they won't describe themselves at all during the thing, except for they'll describe themselves. They'll tell you so much about themselves, but you won't learn. You don't
Haley [00:11:37] know anything,
Lauren [00:11:39] you don't know anything about them. And yet they told you too much information at the same time. Where is the the the men are just there, just like list and they're like, my body. Is this this this, this and this? I like this. This, this, this and this. I want you to be this, this, this, this. Isn't this
Haley [00:11:57] Interesting.
Lauren [00:11:58] This is the impression that I got from a very small data set.
Haley [00:12:01] That's very true. But no, you could write like a 15 page paper, I'm sure.
Lauren [00:12:09] Mm, yeah. Or a 50 minute podcast
Haley [00:12:12] or 50 minute podcast. Anyhoo, I'm going to move on to the next one. This one is from Lesbian Tide Vol. nine, issue two from September to October nineteen seventy nine. That's the issue. So this was published in Atlanta, Georgia. Once upon a time, a princess with yellow hair was best friends with the Black crab. Then everything started to go all wrong between them, and they moved away to opposite ends of the countryside. Is this really the end of the story? Dear crab, please write.
Lauren [00:12:45] I loved this one. I thought it was so cute.
Haley [00:12:49] You'd swipe right? Well, I guess it's not--
Lauren [00:12:53] The thing is she's like looking for one person? Yeah. And it's like, Oh, I mean, you seem, well, I'm interested. I don't really know anything about you besides your yellow, you have yellow hair. But this is also speaking in figurative language about yourself. So if you're speaking, if this is a reference to a specific fairy tale about the princess with long hair and a Black crab, then I really don't know anything. Hold up, if we write the fairy tale about the princess and the Black crab? What? What happens in the what? How does that go?
Haley [00:13:27] Well, I feel like when it mentions of hair, I automatically just think of Rapunzel. So like, there's a tower, there's a tower, there's a princess, and then there's a crab. Very thinking, very Sebastian.
Lauren [00:13:42] What if it starts out like, like, it's Rapunzel or whatever? Like, she lets down her hair for the crab to come up. But then the little snippy hands, they chop too hard and she starts getting a haircut. Oh, no, but she loves the look, and it turns out she's but she's been repressing that. She doesn't like femme stuff. Yeah. And then she saves the crab.
Haley [00:14:03] What does she save the crab from?
Lauren [00:14:04] Do you think the ground, the ground? She picks them up and she's like, Wow, I've never been up here before. Right? And then this thing, a whole new world.
Haley [00:14:14] I was like thinking, So would this be like a biracial relationship? It is like in Atlanta. Maybe they have an inside joke about crabs?
Lauren [00:14:24] Oh God, I hope. I hope. I don't know a lot about them.
Haley [00:14:28] I don't think it would be, but I think that maybe it's like a crabby person, like a friendly woman and then like, Oh, wants other woman? And then they were best friends in like, I don't know, they're best friends, but doesn't necessarily mean that this was like a romantic story.
Lauren [00:14:45] That's true. But I feel like best friend language is so lesbian and
Haley [00:14:50] it is in the Lesbian Tide periodical. So someone's a lesbian here.
Lauren [00:14:54] Mm hmm. Maybe both. There is. There's some gayness here, for sure. I remember reading this and it was so funny to me. Dear reader, dear listener, not reader, listener. You know, I was reading this and she was like, Oh my God. And then everything between them went wrong when they moved to the opposite ends of the country side. Yeah. So it's like I thought they moved really far away and I'm like, Oh, are they just kind of like instead of being like a couple of minutes away now, they're like 20 minutes away.
Haley [00:15:25] Maybe they're but it's two hours away. They're like four hours away.
Lauren [00:15:29] I mean, don't be in a lot that would don't make sense. I don't know.
Haley [00:15:32] Then maybe it's just like a euphemism--not a euphemism. It's just like a part of like the story.
Lauren [00:15:38] I feel like that was a moment where real life slipped into the story. And then the Black crab moved to Washington, D.C., five hours away, and then the Yellow Princess couldn't afford the gas to go visit. Just like all of a sudden, it's like, Hmm.
Haley [00:15:57] Which I know, like you bring up a very interesting point. Lesbian Tide was published in Atlanta, Georgia. How far it is a lesbian time to go like it could just be in Atlanta, Georgia, or it's
Lauren [00:16:08] up and down like six feet,
Haley [00:16:10] right? It goes in and out.
Lauren [00:16:13] Yeah, exactly.
Haley [00:16:14] It can be low or high. Mm hmm. Maybe, maybe they're a lesbian. Maybe it was just like a it's a it's something that is like an act. Or maybe they were literally just moved to like different sides of Atlanta.
Lauren [00:16:27] Well, it is a country side, so I feel like maybe roughly the same area like northwestern Georgia,
Haley [00:16:34] that would make sense. I don't know much about Georgia.
Lauren [00:16:38] the exact details of this is left to time alone. Yes. What are we mere mortals to know?
Haley [00:16:48] Next ad?
Lauren [00:16:54] Me: Jane. You: Tarzan. I hear the drumbeat of life. Dance with me in the moonlight GWF. Thirty three, blond green eyes. Call me. She doesn't say, Call me, but I have like a little phone emoji. I guess it's kind of like an emoji, but it's a newspaper. Yeah, rotary phone
Haley [00:17:17] So she must have some subscription to like a lot of papers at this time. The 90s had a call option where you could set up a little voicemail through the newspaper and that's I guess that number is like an extension. So that would be like you call the Southern Voice. April 21st and 27th, 1994, and you call the invoice 13 40 and then you pick up and you can say hi to us.
Lauren [00:17:46] Hi, Jane. What's up? Jane Smith, Tarzan? I was just wondering if you still had my bra that I left over last night like. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. I wear it a lot. So I just like, I mean, normally I wouldn't really care. But like,
Haley [00:18:02] we just danced too hard in the moonlight.
Lauren [00:18:04] We danced so hard that my bra fell off.
Haley [00:18:07] So this one, unlike the first one, costs differently. This one costs money per word, and as you can tell, it's a very short. So for this, it costs about three dollars at minimum for 20 words. And I did the math for everybody. It was twenty four words in every extra word is 50 cents. So this woman spent the whopping price of five dollars. She spent five dollars to put this ad in, and I'm sure she got like some good shit. It was very bang for buck.
Lauren [00:18:45] This is by far the best ad by far. Me, Jane. You Tarzan. Four words. So much has been said like I've learned. Like, it's so easy to visualize what what she's looking for, you know?
Haley [00:18:59] Yeah, she said, I'm fun,
Lauren [00:19:01] and you, and you're Amazon.
Haley [00:19:04] you are Amazonian. You were going to pick me up with your arms. Maybe sling me through some trees, huh? Yeah, people like that.
Lauren [00:19:11] Some people like that. I mean, I like vines, too, unfortunately.
Haley [00:19:15] And then she also like, really talks about who she is. she's gay, white, female. She's thirty three femme blond and has green eyes,
Lauren [00:19:23] which focus on visual details. Yeah, a lot of these focus on on like they really do focus more on like physical things than like on maybe not more, but they they focus a lot more than I ever would on like describing how I am physically rather than like, what are you going to talk about?
Haley [00:19:39] Let's just you only have twenty four words, but no, I get I get what you're saying. I'm wondering if she is more looking for like a one night- relationship as well.
Lauren [00:19:48] I imagine you, Tarzan--and even like Tarzan can't even talk.
Haley [00:19:52] Tarzan can't talk. He's solely there as eye candy,
Lauren [00:19:55] like parts of his brain have not developed like he didn't and stand. He is. He does not understand like syntax. Yeah, because he grew up around monkeys.
Haley [00:20:04] That's what she's looking for a monkey woman.
Lauren [00:20:07] So let's let's ziga-zig-ah.
Haley [00:20:10] Oh, I like that. I think it is a very interesting take on the butch femme dynamic. Yeah, apparently. Well, Jane, obviously, if Tarzan, I guess, is butch and even like so like when I see things, and maybe it's just also different times. So like right now, it's like a lot of ads in this paper are like, call me! Calling, it feels like very much less intimate than like writing a formal letter to someone.
Lauren [00:20:38] That's true.
Haley [00:20:39] So but also it's 1994 versus like some of the other ads or like earlier,
Lauren [00:20:44] that is interesting to think about, like how you would write for, like anticipating a callback versus anticipating a letter about what kind of details you give. Because like, if you're anticipating a letter back like for this one, what are you going to talk about? You know, like we talk about how you are also tall, blond and to age thirty three, I don't know.
Haley [00:21:04] Right? And like, it's kind of like, Hey, you want to meet up
Lauren [00:21:07] in the letter, the letter, there's so much space to fill. You can be like, I like fast cars, too. That is someone in the future. Spoilers. I'm so excited. I'm so excited.
Haley [00:21:18] OK, so there are some
Lauren [00:21:19] juicers at the end. Dear audience, there are some juicers. Don't leave.
Haley [00:21:24] Would you swipe right? Right, meaning you want?
Lauren [00:21:27] Just like I'm just taking into the fact that these are like 1994 and like earlier and like, I am transgender, as they say in Sweden. Like, I don't know how they're going to react to that, but that being aside, like I'd swipe right? Let's have some fun. I'd probably fit into her thing, and I'll just, I don't know. We'll see if that you'll take her up or not. I can pick her up. I am tall. I'm like, I'm like a little Goliath.
Haley [00:21:51] I get like historicity. But also like, let's bring to the present. It's like in our best world.
Lauren [00:21:59] Assuming that they're assuming that like, I am not. Well, it's just about whether I would swipe right. I say, Yeah, I swipe right.
Haley [00:22:06] Yeah, You swipe and then they can do whatever.
Lauren [00:22:07] The Tarzan is fun. This sounds fun. I'll dance in the moonlight
Haley [00:22:16] Next Ad: Out Front, June 13th 1980. This is published in Denver, Colorado, at this time. Prince Charming Sought. Slender, masculine, idealistic six foot white man seeks a prince. Twenty three to thirty three tall and well muscled to carry me off into the sunset. Horse optional. Enjoy music, fast cars, science fiction, touching, beards and hairy bodies. If you're my prince write this P.O. box in Denver, Colorado. Photo please. I love this one.
Haley [00:22:54] You swipe right or left?
Lauren [00:22:55] left because I'm gay. Yeah.
Haley [00:22:57] Oh yeah. Well, I would swipe right.
Lauren [00:23:00] I see. You see. I love this one like person. I mean I'm dating someone.
Haley [00:23:10] Yeah, aren't we all. but what are what are your first impressions of this?
Lauren [00:23:14] OK, my literal very first impression was Prince Charming Sought. Sort of like, why not put seeking Prince Charming? I was like active versus passive language. And then I was like, How about something more interesting? Because it is funny that you won't say, I'm seeking Prince Charming-- saying that you, the Prince Charming, are being sought by me. It's just so roundabout. I don't know about like how they feel.
Haley [00:23:41] Yeah, OK.
Lauren [00:23:44] Where is the agency in that? I think it's-- I like thinking about how people use syntax and language. I think it's really fun. That's what I was really into in Latin.
Haley [00:23:52] No, I like this. I like this a lot. This is what I'm missing.
Lauren [00:23:55] Oh, OK. Yeah, we could get English class on this, on this bean. Um, I do love horse optional. Very cute. So just very cute and playful. I like that a lot. I also thought it was extremely funny that it was like enjoying music, fast cars, science fiction, and touching, and touching and touching.
Haley [00:24:13] Just a little hope. Just, oh my god, just a little tender.
Lauren [00:24:18] And then actually, you know, zooming out very slightly, science fiction, followed by touching beards and hairy bods, is also funny because it's like you can. You can see where his mind is going is like, Oh, music, fast cars. Oh yeah, I like science fiction and touching and beards and hairy body. He's like, and resting my head on your chest and kissing you and kissing you and kissing you and kissing you till you fall asleep in my arms while we watch hit new film Dune Part one. But the part wasn't shown in the title, but it is not a standalone film, as you learn at the end of the movie. Anyhoo, anyhoo, that could be a Segway into into something I've written later. Or we could Segway right away because my my thought was like, OK, science fiction movie Dune just came out. We can be, we can be the podcast that's just so in touch at the moment. It's just just hip with the vibe, finger on the pulse, you know, like, I wonder, I maybe think, like, who are the people that he would want to take him into the sunset on a giant sand worm, you know, in hit film dune science fiction film?
Haley [00:25:37] Worm Butthole Worm?
Lauren [00:25:39] It does look like a butthole. Yeah, and I'm glad. I'm glad we are the hard hitting podcast. I can finally say that someone is finally brave enough to say the sand worms in Dune do look like buttholes. I was thinking evocative. I was thinking he might be into. Is the actor Oscar Isaac? The Duke of House of Atradies. I feel like he'd like that. Or I was thinking the leader of the rebellion that he runs into.
Haley [00:26:07] Jason Momoa.
Lauren [00:26:08] Oh, he would love. Oh my god, who's name is...
Haley [00:26:09] Duncan Idaho.
Lauren [00:26:10] Duncan, Idaho. Oh my God, my favorite drag king name. Yeah, he even has like, well, he doesn't have a horse, but he has a plane, which is kind of like, Oh yeah, it's science fiction horse Prince Charming. And my god, dragon fly.
Haley [00:26:27] I mean, dragonfly horse.
Lauren [00:26:28] They're both animals.
Haley [00:26:30] Back to the ad. This man is in Denver, Colorado. He could have a someone who has a horse.
Lauren [00:26:38] There is a there's a high level of horse ability for the romantic interest.
Haley [00:26:42] What other things? I would swipe right on this man because --
Lauren [00:26:46] I would swipe the horse horse optional just kind of shows the playfulness. Yeah, it's the first time where the person is showing humor. The other ones have been really serious. I would swipe right.
Haley [00:26:55] I was swipe right because I like the language in it. But also, I don't think that. I don't think that this man would swipe right on me because I don't know, weird. I'm not hairy. Yeah, I'm not a prince. Well, I am prince, a Petit Prince.
Lauren [00:27:13] But but they would not. They would not put you that way.
Haley [00:27:15] No, no, no.
Lauren [00:27:18] The next one we push on that. This one's a doozy. It's a doozy. So this was printed--- Is this the newspaper or is this the town?
Haley [00:27:34] The paper.
Lauren [00:27:34] So the newspaper is Focus Point, a newspaper in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and the year is 1994, but it's November 1994 or so. So they're coming up on ninety five. Mm hmm.
Haley [00:27:45] So it's like very near to Thanksgiving.
Lauren [00:27:47] If you're speaking about speaking like Zodiacally, so directly because it's very close, it's cusp. r. 1994-1995
Haley [00:27:58] So you going into, what's in December?
Lauren [00:28:02] Oh, Atreides, that's Dune. I don't know. Anyhoo, Focus Point in Minneapolis, Minnesota, the year, nineteen ninety four, the month November, the day. We don't have the technology for that and by we, we don't. I mean, we do. It's the 17th. Like the all too familiar ending to a classic lesbian western, the heroine and her partner are riding off into the sunset together, feeling completely and totally secure in each other's embrace. When the unexpected happens, her partner jumps off the horse at hysterically shrieks. I've had enough, let me off! I need space NOW. What would you do to rebuild trust in a new relationship? I'd like to hear your version of the same story, or at least some hope of future intimacy. Despite former disastrous but nevertheless memorable break such break ups. That's not really a sentence.
Haley [00:29:01] I don't think this at all.
Lauren [00:29:03] No, I am NOT. This is all caps. NO, I am not looking for sympathy. Merely someone who is prepared to face the reality of ups and downs in everyday life situations. You must be 30 to 40 years old. Be capable, loving and smart, able to add to your imperfections in another and love your own imperfections as well. And maybe we can laugh at ourselves together. Sway back and all.
Haley [00:29:38] Red flag. Surely put it all out there.
Lauren [00:29:40] So we have foreshadowed a little bit some of the future stories here. This is one of the ones where it's like, we have learned too much about this person, and yet we know nothing at all like this is, I think, the longest one. Maybe the first one is a little bit longer, but this person has said zero things about themselves. Other than that, they've had their very traumatized the worst time ever. Well, the best time and then the worst time.
Haley [00:30:07] The best time, probably, you know, maybe riding off into the sunset. I don't know what that means is a lesbian, though, because that could have been they had they shared two weeks together. Also, people were allowed to break up with people. And with the fact that anyone broke up with them, she said, I had enough.
Lauren [00:30:25] I mean, her perspective is everything was going perfectly. And then the other person screams, I've had enough let me off. I need space, which means they were not having a good time well before that, and it built up quite a bit. Yeah, I feel like they just didn't recognize anything whatsoever. They had no awareness.
Haley [00:30:44] And now they're going to write about it in their local newspaper.
Lauren [00:30:47] I wonder if this person like it was their first relationship as a gay woman could be.
Haley [00:30:54] It might emit and may well then, because I feel like there's some way to hold on a little bit too long and also late bloomers.
Lauren [00:31:02] And I'm sensing a late bloomer story. That's just my.
Haley [00:31:07] I mean, she's looking for 30 to 40, so if it wasn't her first--
Lauren [00:31:11] I'll say you can also just use toxic as fuck. To be sure,
Haley [00:31:16] I think first love's like, you're absolutely devastated, but you maybe don't get as bitter as this. This person is bitter.
Lauren [00:31:29] Yeah, true. And the sentence so all caps is no, I am not. No, I am not looking for some for sympathy, merely someone who is prepared to face the reality. But but
Haley [00:31:44] it's like, it's like it's so
Lauren [00:31:45] much energy. And like, I'm just asking you to put up with the ups and downs of day to day life. Mm hmm.
Haley [00:31:54] I'm not looking for sympathy. Clearly, you kind of are because you put this out into the world. You put it in print and now we are reading it 20 years later.
Lauren [00:32:02] No, I am not looking for sympathy comes in two thirds of the way through this ad.. Mm hmm. First, two thirds are just her talking about her past relationships. Like what she's
Haley [00:32:13] she kind of like this. That's like she talks a game.
Lauren [00:32:17] We watch her trauma to be seen.
Haley [00:32:20] Vaguely, vaguely trauma. No, this is what therapies for. You don't put it in a newspaper,
Lauren [00:32:26] I do wonder this is quite long. So I'm guessing it's probably a similar situation with our first personal ad.
Haley [00:32:34] No. Do you want to know how much she spends on this ad?
Lauren [00:32:38] Please give me the biggest glean into the huge coffers of this messed up lady.
Haley [00:32:44] So I want to first start out by-- the first twenty five words are twenty dollars. So that's a lot. That's like a hundred words. Minneapolis should not be that expensive, but that's what it is. So twenty dollars for the first twenty five words, so then 50 cents additional. You want to know how many words? One hundred and fifty six words she spent on this ad. She spent eighty two dollars and fifty cents on this ad in 1994.
Lauren [00:33:10] Money that's like a hundred to thirty forty fifty dollars to the inflation.
Haley [00:33:15] No, exactly. But it's like, Oh my God, she probably spent the first twenty dollars transcribing her ex. Really? This is fucking insane. Also, sorry, insane isn't a good word, but also mostly.
Lauren [00:33:30] But I mean, she's not setting yourself up to be perceived as a healthy individual. Right, right. So it's not it's not overly cruel to call her---
Haley [00:33:42] It's it's just
Lauren [00:33:43] too colloquially call her.
Haley [00:33:45] It's just, you know, it's insane. It's insane spending eighty two dollars, maybe a hundred in that time doing this. The thing is, usually I'm like, I hope you found your person. Well, like. And I do. I do hope this person found her person. I don't think she found. I don't think anybody replied to this. This is,
Lauren [00:34:03] well, obviously I'm a swipe left. Also the the term sway back right at the very end. And maybe we can laugh at ourselves together, karma sway back and all. Now I'm going to hear your notes. Yeah.
Haley [00:34:17] According to my notes sway back means an abnormally hollowed back, especially in a horse. So like, as you said, it has like a big U- back.
Lauren [00:34:27] You said that is unimportant in the notes. I also I think that's really important. Like she views herself as someone who I guess that means like kind of broken in a way. Oh yeah. I don't know, like in the horse world what it means to be sway back. But I think I think I feel like it means that you
Haley [00:34:42] can no longer ride them. You can no longer. Yeah, at the very least, it like hurts them to do so.
Lauren [00:34:48] Interesting because she set herself up as someone who is like, well, the last relationship didn't work because the other person didn't understand that there's normal ups and downs in their relationship. Mm hmm. But now she's saying that no, I'm I'm someone who's broken at the same time, which is kind of that's kind of a a conflict there, I feel like. Mm hmm.
Haley [00:35:09] No, I would agree.
Lauren [00:35:11] I wonder if this is like the one thing we learned about her like personality, like her interest is that she's a horse person and that comes at the very end. And it is it is an implicit fact, not an explicit.
Haley [00:35:23] That's very true. Yeah. Whoo. So we're both swiping left on this ad, Bigley.
Lauren [00:35:31] Bigley size large.
Haley [00:35:38] Next ad: Out Week, published in New York City, which means it was probably national. So this was published August twenty eighth. Nineteen eighty nine, Femme of center, gay, white female forty seven, Guinevere seekss lesbian Lancelot to bring me dragons to play with. Are you butch of center, nonsmoker/drugs? Do you love animals? I will answer all responses.
So if anyone is seen that Sean Connery, Knights of the round table thing where so Sean Connery is King Arthur and then Richard Gere is Lancelot. I love. I love that movie. I watched it in class the first time, but I was like, I love the dynamic. I love the love Triangle and I love the woman. She was very, pretty. I don't remember who she is, but who plays her. But yeah, I really enjoyed this one. I don't know. You may have thoughts.
Lauren [00:36:38] I think it's very short and sweet, too, and I think Seeks lesbian Lancelot is another for powerful forward opener that I just like, and it just gives you so much information.
Haley [00:36:49] Princess seeks Knight
Lauren [00:36:50] Yeah, it's me, Jane. You Tarzan. Yeah, Guinevere seeks lesbian Lancelot, these are. This is using the form very brilliantly of of integrating fairytales to to give a complex image or idea of what they're looking for. In so few words, like they're they're like hopping on the fairy tale to give a bunch of information to the other person. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's I think it's really cool and and I feel like those two people. Tarzan, Tarzan and whatever. I feel like they're kind of crushing it and using fairy tales.
Haley [00:37:31] I agree. And I would totally smush them together if they were both like femme people, like looking for some kind of, I mean, maybe like Tarzan. I don't know if that's considered like a butch thing, but like, this is another like butch femme dynamic.
Lauren [00:37:45] Yet Tarzan and lesbian Lancelot are two very different things, very different. And now and now, the way they both set themselves up is that they're both looking for someone who is butch. But those two butch people are very different
Haley [00:37:59] They are, but they're both very.
Lauren [00:38:03] They're both no bullshit. They're both very taking charge. Yeah, emotionally and romantically in a situation which I guess what my brain is thinking is like. I think it's a little bit tedious that that it's like asking the butch people to be like the movers and shakers of the relationship instead of just like, like, come save me, you know, like, come dance in the moonlight with me.
Haley [00:38:29] But I don't know, because I don't know the fact that Guinevere and Jane are setting in motion just by posting.
Lauren [00:38:39] That's true. And I do think maybe that's just the fantasy they want to play in, but in terms of the actual relationship or keep it more even
Haley [00:38:47] But I'm thinking about like like butch femme dynamics and how like in the 40s, 50s, whatever 60s, a lot of like butch women were playing into a lot of like masculine stereotypes that might be a little bit more violent and then, like their femme counterparts, were very much also taking charge in different ways. I mean, it's like the same as like kings like run the country, but queens really have like the kings ear type of thing. Yeah, go heterosexual about it, right?
Lauren [00:39:17] If we're ever going to import the like the hat language, I guess. Yeah. So this is this is Lauren's fun facts. This question has more question marks than any of the other ads. So it goes. Are you butch of center nonsmoker drugs? No, not smoke. Sex drugs. Love animals.
Haley [00:39:38] So, yeah, you're right.
Lauren [00:39:40] Which is not how other ads I've seen. Like, they're just like, I want you to be this. I am this other person. I like the questions. It's like, you know, you don't have to be these things, but like, Hey, do you like animals?
Haley [00:39:54] No, I do. You're right. I think what it's like,
Lauren [00:39:58] they seem like a nice person. Bring me dragons to play with. I think it's just a great.
Haley [00:40:06] I love that. It's very it's it's giving me a very big Game of Thrones.
Lauren [00:40:18] She's putting, she's just putting herself out there. She's putting a lot of her own personality out there, and I think that's awesome.
Haley [00:40:24] And she saves so much money.
Lauren [00:40:26] Yeah, by doing a normal ad. OK, next one: From the land of milk and honey, the omnipotent, omniscient lesbian mother goddess, out of pure benevolence from the depths of her bosom, created two virgin maidens in Synchrony. One of them is YOU, and one of them is ME. That's the first sentence. She vowed at the time of their birth that only when the two of them were grown and ready to take on the responsibility of a relationship that they should meet and befriend each other, and then and only then would all of their insecurities, fears and ghosts of the past past be banished from the land forever. I am now grown and ready, where are YOU? All caps.
Haley [00:41:30] This one is less fairy tale and more spiritual. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. And it's giving me fear.
Lauren [00:41:41] I would like to point out, and this is just like since some moments of this. This podcast, I suppose, have been very like English classy. Like, This is three sentences.
Haley [00:41:52] Oh no.
Lauren [00:41:55] This is three sentences. And if we took away the last line, it would be two sentences if we took away, I am grown and ready. Where are you? So, this is a beast. My potentially ADHD brain can barely handle like getting in the middle of a sentence and just gets lost. Like,.
Haley [00:42:15] No, you did a wonderful job.
Lauren [00:42:16] Thank you so much. There are many ellipses, by the way. And they sort of help, but they're like false islands for me to swim to. I don't know. Yeah. Well, yeah, fear this. This is so much to put on the other person. .
Haley [00:42:34] Definitely we are soulmates. The goddess has designed us and
Lauren [00:42:40] not just any goddess, the omnipotent, omniscient lesbian mother goddess. Out of pure but evil, it's from the depths of her bosom created to Virgin maidens. So which means it's not the only thing we know about her is that she is a virgin.
Haley [00:42:53] She's a virgin. She's never had anyone before, and she is looking for another virgin who has never had anyone before. This is going to go away spectacular.
Lauren [00:43:02] But she's had the least information. One also, I mean, we've learned again, far too much about this person, and we still know nothing like we don't know anything about how old they are. There's nothing about age, something that interests. There's nothing about anything. We know that well, that they identify as a lesbian because lesbian mother goddess. Other than that, like,
Haley [00:43:21] oh my god, I forgot this is from the same issue as the other Minneapolis, Minnesota, Focus point. So this is November 11. This is lesbian western. It's the same same issue, the same day. I do believe the links and the sheer desperation. I think that that woman put two ads in this paper.
Lauren [00:43:53] Oh, I see.
Lauren [00:43:55] I guess that's that is your theory. That's my theory. OK.
Lauren [00:43:58] I feel like those two, they're probably the worst and the best pairing. You know what I mean? Yeah, they are like the same person. They are horrible. They deserve each other.
Haley [00:44:10] So they're either two people who definitely met and exploded. Or is this the same person?
Lauren [00:44:17] Is this the person who ruined lesbian westerns? Is she the one who needed the space?
Lauren [00:44:24] She seems like the opposite of that kind of person, but was, who knows?
Haley [00:44:30] But also the lesbian Western wouldn't have been a virgin because she obviously had dated someone before. Maybe not, obviously, but she definitely has some kind of baggage, so it feels it seems extremely obvious. So because she says it. I don't think they would go together at all, though, because I feel like you're a virgin. But are we talking about Virgin in terms of?
Lauren [00:44:50] Well, I mean, they were virgins at the time of creation by the omnipotent, omniscient lesbian mother goddess. Yeah, whether they are now or not, I suppose, is not is not mentioned,
Lauren [00:45:01] I don't know. She seems to have mentioned it already, so I wonder if that's an important thing for her.
Haley [00:45:05] Yeah, which is very interesting answered by something. Or is it untainted by like having been with a man? Like, That's what I'm thinking.
Lauren [00:45:12] Oh, like because let's face it's a very het like language. Yeah, thinking kind of thing is like virginity.
Haley [00:45:19] Right? And I feel like in the nineties and even maybe into the now. But I think lesson to now, like some laws do not want to date other women who have like had sex with some of the penis. Yeah.
Lauren [00:45:34] Oh yeah. There's so much going on, like we could dig and dig and dig.
Haley [00:45:45] Like if you have been sexed by a penis and you're no longer like a golden star lesbian? I don't know. Yeah, that's something that's similar to this, and I'm not putting this on her. But like when you use this language
Lauren [00:45:59] I feel like we could read that into it, but that's like. But it's not, it's like way between the words, you know? Yeah.
Lauren [00:46:05] So anyway, it's this, she says. I am now grown and ready, is she?
Haley [00:46:10] I don't think. I don't think so. She could have saved this for, like the first date. This is quite a lot,
Lauren [00:46:18] OK, but I mean, it would have been it would have been a lot, but comparatively would have been less and less.
Haley [00:46:25] Because if you put it in print, then people 20 to seven years later will fucking read it.
Lauren [00:46:36] We're like eight days away from the twenty seventh birthday of this hell ad.
Haley [00:46:42] This ad is almost older than me. Oh, it is old. It is older than both of us. And you know what? I am glad that this was an ongoing birth year because it makes me think,
Lauren [00:46:54] Yeah, oh my god, I hope like she hears this and she's like. The cringing a little bit at herself, we've just like in a healthy way, yeah. Can I help you? I just like seeing what she was doing in that moment. Not like I hope she views herself badly.
Haley [00:47:11] No, no, no. What I mean, because I mean, I could go back to my--and I do considerably--to see my Facebook posts from years and years ago on this day and really makes me want to die. Oh my god, why? Why? Why did you do this thing? Why did you say this? And maybe that's what she would experience you. So we love the goddess. We love her. We love.
Lauren [00:47:41] I was going to say I just saw the notes for the last one, and this is something I wanted to touch on. This is something that, like you can see so vividly in her in her writing, it is like some serious gaydreaming, which is what I like to, which is, you know, the term I like to call for, like when you're just daydreaming about being gay. And I think it's very common for people who are like a little bit like closeted or like are in like queer spaces. A lot to just be like trying to escape to a gay town in their brain. And you feel like you could see that pretty vividly in this one. Yeah, I know this is worth keeping in, but I just saw gay dreaming.
Haley [00:48:16] And yeah, a big fan of the work. This is, yeah, I do love a good gay dream. I think you're correct. I think that
Lauren [00:48:23] I feel like you can see them gay dreaming about the other person because the setup of this perfect life with their soulmate, lesbian goddess made, it's been foretold over centuries and destiny and shit like that.
Haley [00:48:39] Yeah, not cynical at all.
Lauren [00:48:40] But I think she also recognizes it because she says from the land of milk and honey. And I just realize this right now because she's literally like, This is. Very like. Like, just sugary, like what I like to eat for myself.
Lauren [00:48:59] She could not have, like its not unironic like she, she sees what she's doing a little bit, but she does. She still does choose to make this her ad, right? But but there is a little bit of like she knows that she's setting. She's like pushing it so hard, like so the hyper idealism of what she wants. She knows that it's hyperbole. But she also wants it very clearly.
Haley [00:49:29] She she's going to get someone I think, like there will be another lesbian who has this type of like land of milk and honey feeling.
Lauren [00:49:39] It's like hyper idealized version view of like how relationships are built up. You know, I think I think it's interesting how much of it is in third person that they should meet. And that is the two of because once she gets to the Goddess created two virgin maidens, she's talking about one of them as herself. And then she's like, You know that they should meet and befriend each other. And then and only then would all of their insecurities, fears and ghosts of the past be banished from the land forever. You know what's interesting about this one? It's the only one that tells a fairy tale. I feel like, yeah, the only other one that you could argue that for, I feel like is the yellow hair and the black crab.
Haley [00:50:18] Mm-Hmm.
Lauren [00:50:18] The princess of the yellow hair with the black crab. Whereas in this one she's saying the ending. She's saying which one of you are in the story? Oh yeah, which is very interesting.
Haley [00:50:28] No, I like this perspective like that. That is you're right. This is those are the two that actually tell a fairy tale story. The rest of them just evoke fairy tales that we already know. But like in a sentence. Yeah, really.
Lauren [00:50:42] Tarzan and Lancelot, they hijacked the story to give information. Yeah. This one, she literally tells a new story and just says, Someone get in here. Get in here. One of you be in the story with me. Hurry up. Yeah.
Haley [00:50:57] Well, it gives me very there's a country song that's like every red light led me to you. Mm hmm. But it's like, it's literally like this. This thing like is foretold. Like, if I had never stopped at that red light, you know, for five minutes, I never met you, even though your day pretty much resets. But that's fine. Yeah, I guess earlier in the day, if he ends up in the red light but may know,
Lauren [00:51:23] but like like fate and and the feel and the experience of thinking of all your experiences as guidance to this moment.
Haley [00:51:36] Thank you so much and Lauren for being on my podcast, on the podcast of me doing fairy tales. I feel like we got to really learn about a lot, about each other, a lot about the fact that we both have.
Lauren [00:52:04] I love this. This is so much. This is so much fun.
Haley [00:52:09] It was something that I could find a lot of.
Lauren [00:52:12] Yeah, I like that for you, too. Yeah, I bet that's but it's a pain in the ass to be like, Oh, OK, cool theme that I see in this one. I can't find it in any other ones now.
Haley [00:52:22] Luckily, queers are very romanticized.
Lauren [00:52:27] They think about it if they think about what relationship they want to be in for a very long time before they get to do any experimentation.
Haley [00:52:34] Very, very true. Thank you so much for listening. Please subscribe, follow. Share the show anywhere you want it to please again. Also, do you like tinctures and other herbalism things? Visit at Toadstool Botanicals. Please enjoy banjo music.